我喜歡《尚書》的原因是，如果你想理解中國文化在中國曆史中的根源，那麼就去讀《尚書》。《尚書》是一本非常基礎而根本的書。它談到了等級製度， 談到了對皇帝的尊敬。它同時提到皇帝隻是因“天賦神權”而取得統治權力。如果百姓覺得皇帝失去了這種天賦的神權，那麼他們就有權力推翻這個皇帝。
所以我認為《尚書》是一本非常重要的書。它是中國最早的史書。它向西方揭示了中國曆史從（堯舜禹到）夏、商，再到今天的連續性。除非你讀《尚書》，否則我不認為你能理解今天的中國。
Wang： These two books are very popular among English readers， right？
王：這兩本書在英文讀者中很受歡迎對嗎？
Martin： The Zhuang Zi is very popular indeed because there is the fascination with Taoism. So the Zhuang Zi sells very well.
彭馬田：《莊子》確實非常受歡迎，因為道家思想（對於英文讀者來說）有著很強的吸引力。所以《莊子》銷量很好。
But the Shang Shu has just been out over a year. It is selling well because people are beginning to be aware of the fact that if you listen to President Xi very often， he is quoting Confucius. He is also quoting the Shang Shu. So in order to understand your president， you have to read Confucius， and you have to read the Shang Shu.
For example， I was asked to give copies of the Shang Shu to the royal family and to the British government， so they could read it to understand， if you like， where President Xi’s moral basis is coming from. My guess is the Shang Shu will grow in popularity.
《尚書》才剛剛出版一年，但是它也銷量不錯，因為人們開始認識到習近平主席經常引用孔子（《論語》），他也引用《尚書》。所以要了解你們的主席，你需要讀孔子，讀《尚書》。
比如說，英國王室和英國政府都要求看我翻譯的《尚書》，他們想要了解習近平主席的思想和精神來源。我猜這本書將會越來越受歡迎。
Wang： Have you ever gotten some feedbacks from your English readers？
王：你從讀者那裏得到了哪些反饋？
Martin： Yes， I do. The publishers often got correspondence back. On the Zhuang Zi， I suppose the funny comments back. Somebody wrote in and said： “I bought this book for philosophy. It is not a philosophy. It is full of jokes and stories.” So I wrote back and said： “that is the best kind of philosophy that there is.” Most people love the translations because they are accessible. They can understand this material.
彭馬田：是的。出版人常常會收到反饋。關於《莊子》有很多有意思的點評。一個讀者給我寫信說：“我買了這本書想要讀哲學，但是它不是哲學。書裏麵全都是笑話和故事。”我回信道：“這就是最好的哲學。”大多數人們喜歡這些翻譯是因為它們很容易接近。讀者是可以讀懂它們的。
Wang： What influences do these two books have on Western nations and English speakers， especially British society and British， to understand Chinese classic culture？
王：這兩本書對於西方國家和英文讀者，特別是英國社會和英國人了解中國傳統文化產生了哪些影響？
Martin： I think the Zhuang Zi tells the British and people in the West in general， that China is fun. In the Zhuang Zi， it has wonderful descriptions of the Tao， the relationship between Tao and heaven， and earth， and humanity. It contains a very radically different understanding of our place in nature than Western philosophy.
Western philosophy basically says there is nature， and there are us. We have nothing to do with that （nature）. We observe it. We look at it. We manage it， and， I am sorry to say， we ruin it. Environmental destruction is probably the biggest thing we do.
Taoism， especially in the Zhuang Zi， says， the followers， and you， and I， and this tea， and this table， we are all one under heaven and on earth. We， human beings， have the responsibility to keep the balance of Yin and Yang， and the flow of Qi. So it is a radically different notion of reality.
So I think， on one level， the Zhuang Zi offers the West a very different set of glasses， through which to see the world and to relate to it. And also， it is funny. I think Taoism is in general， but the Zhuang Zi is particular. It is challenging， in a very accessible way， some of the assumptions of the Western philosophy and Western politics. So that has a big impact.
彭馬田：我想《莊子》告訴了英國人以及西方人中國是有趣的。在《莊子》裏，有非常精彩的對於“道”的描述，還有對於道和天、道和地，以及道和人類關係的闡釋。它裏麵蘊含了與西方哲學從根本上不同的對於自然和我們生活環境的理解。
西方哲學基本上強調那是自然，這是我們人類。我們沒法對自然做任何事。我們觀察它，注視它，控製它，同時我很抱歉地說，我們摧毀了它。破壞環境可能是我們做的最大的一件事。
道家，尤其是在《莊子》中，說花、你、我、這杯茶和這張桌子，在天之下，在地之上，所有事物都歸一。我們人類有責任保持陰陽的平衡以及氣的順暢流動。所以說這是（和西方）從根本上不同的觀點。
所以我認為，在一定程度上，《莊子》為西方提供了一副迥然不同的眼鏡來看世界，並和世界取得聯係。同時，它還是非常有趣的。我認為道家具有普遍性，而《莊子》具有獨特性。它對一些西方哲學和西方政治中的假設以令人接受的方式提出了挑戰。所以說《莊子》對西方有很大的影響。
Confucius， I hope what this would do is to make people realize that Confucianism is also a profound way of understanding the world. Again， what the Shang Shu offers is a radically different perspective on history and power.